| Author | Message | ||
     Dan Hall Guest |
I was wondering how everyone is making out on getting their hunts booked for this up coming whitetail season. Are the higher end hunts going quicker than the lower end? Is everyone having sucess with getting ahold of the deer that hunters are wanting to buy? I have talked to at least one ranch owner that is having a hard time getting good shooters for a reasonable price. How are the rest of you sitting? | ||
| spr Guest |
yearling shooters out ot 200+ class deer with superior norther genetids are still under $5000. These can turn out to be 190 to 220 by year three (no guarantee) but are still a good buy. Contact me at sprinkcreekranch@hotmail.com for more info. JH | ||
| Scrapeline Guest |
I respectfully disagree with you spr. Most deer breeders would be tickled to have 90% of their crop turn out to be 150's. $5,000. is close to what you're going to buy fawns and some yearlings for. Correct me if I'm wrong. I am basing my opinion on web sites and several brochures sent to me and don't regard myself as an authority by any stretch of the imagination. scr, what do you think current hunt prices for 'shooters' are in the Texas market? Say, for 140's, 150's, 160's and bigger? 'not being difficult with you I could be off base a mile. Thanks, Bob. | ||
| Anonymous |
Hi, In my market here in texas, shooters under 150 are around $3500 for a complete hunt, lodge, and guide. 5000-6500 for those deer from 150-170, and the prices skyrocket from there. 150s are a good deer, and the latest set of tv shows seem to be takeing 125-135s... I think that will help. Also, at trade shows, everyone shows 160+, which raises that expectation high. The overall season is down again, and I took cancellations with the hurricanes and gas prices. Sad... | ||
| Andy_funk Member Username: Andy_funk Post Number: 53 Registered: 02-2004 |
Where I guide, in SW Texas it's 4 days for $3,000. That includes everything except your gun, bullets, and toothbrush. We can even fix ya up with a rifle if necessary. The bucks are from the 120's to our max ever of a 164. This is low fence open range. We take alot of 130's and 140's. The deer are supplemented and it is working. No extra charge for over anything. A 160 is the same price as a 120. | ||
| Dan Hall Guest |
The reason that I asked the original questions is that I cant see how people selling hunts for bucks up to 150 at 3500 can afford to pay what most breeders are asking for stocker bucks. If the people selling the hunts cant raise enough deer, they will soon be out of business. I am in Texas and this seems to be a problem or soon will be. People contact me every week looking for affordable stockers. It seems that the majority of the deer breeders in this state are just getting into the business and see most their bucks as Breeders when in reality alot of them are stockers. We as deer breeders need to realize that every buck that we raise is not going to be a "Dreambuck" regardless of their pedigree. It takes more than paper to make a buck of breeder quality. | ||
| Jason_larue Member Username: Jason_larue Post Number: 177 Registered: 03-2004 |
Dan, I agree with you about the shooters. I have a friend that is selling a group of shooters, and I understood why they weren't sold yet. I believe a reasonable price is half whatever the ranch can sell the hunt for, unless there are some really good deer in there that they make take out and put in there pens. But I guess that's there business what they do with them. I guess the only way to fix that Dan is to up the hunt prices which tends to hurt business sometimes. What are your thoughts on this?? | ||
| Dan Hall Guest |
I have talked to several people that are high fenced and need shooter bucks. I am told that a hunt for a buck up 160 will only sell for 5K or so. The landowner needs to be able to buy that buck if he cant produce the deer himself. He would have to be able to buy the 160 class buck for 2500 or 2750 in order to make any money. Thats not happening in Texas right now. I think that will change after the people that have priced themselves out of the market feed those deer for a year or two. There are a bunch of people getting into the business in Texas, I bet in a few yrs there will be a glut of shooter bucks available.It will probably happen about the time that I have my first good crop of bucks. Hopefully my high fence will be up by then. | ||
| Scot Member Username: Scot Post Number: 2 Registered: 09-2005 |
If a ranch buys a 160 for $3500 and then sells for $5000.....they are making money!!! | ||
| Dan Hall Guest |
I agree that they are making money at those prices, but not much. 1500 left after paying for the buck doesnt leave much after you figure what it costs to pull off a hunt. Do you know where a land owner can buy a 160 class buck for 3500 or even 6000 in Texas? | ||
| Farmer Guest |
The hunt preserve owner has a lot of overhead - probably a lodge to maintain, property taxes to pay, fence to maintain, and the time and energy that goes into guiding a hunt. Also, some preserves offer to cape the animal at no extra charge. I would say $1500 would be a break even situation. | ||
| Whitepinedeer Member Username: Whitepinedeer Post Number: 162 Registered: 11-2002  |
In all these posts and discussions I don't see many people ever including in the cost to the buyer (preserve owner) when he buys 5 bucks and one dies. | ||
| preserve owner Guest |
Ah ha at least one person looked at the biggest cost to a hunt preserve owner who buys his shooters. Very good Whitepine, well said! | ||
| Dan Hall Guest |
I agree with that too, Whitepine. I just now have my first crop of fawns on the ground and havent completed the high fence so I would fall more under the breeder catigory than the preserve owner, but I hope to be both soon. As a breeder of whitetail deer, I think that we need to be aware of and in support of high fenced ranch operators as they are the only stable market for those of us that are raising deer. I think that in Texas, the deer breeding frenzy and overpriced deer will not remain. That bubble has to burst. I dont know how many people are waiting for their Texas Scientific Breeders License, but I have heard its a bunch. One that market is filled, the prices will change. Until then, I beleive that shooter bucks will be scarce. | ||
| Scrapeline Guest |
Whitepinedeer, since I consider you one of the whitetail "guru's", I humble myself to make mention that if I, a breeder only at present, were to include my losses since I started 5 year's ago, few could afford my run-of-the-mill deer! I'm being humorous, Whitepinedeer! Tears in my eyes, but humorous! | ||
| Jason_larue Member Username: Jason_larue Post Number: 182 Registered: 03-2004 |
Dan Hall, I know it is too late now, but if you need shooters for $2500, I know some folks down here in South Texas that do really good business. One of the guys I work with down here just sold a group of 10 2yr olds scoring from 110-140's that can easily be 150-160's or better shooters at 4+. Research has shown that there is less than 5% death loss for bucks once they are 2yrs +. But, all that said I guess it all vary's on a case by case basis. Ex. Lack of veg, cover, buck:doe ration, poachers, etc. in your area that could vary this percent. Dan, do you release bucks at 2 on your ranch or do you pen them up and feed them till' they're older? | ||
| Wooden Acres Guest |
Gosh I wish we had some of these problems up here in Wi . We have way more bucks than we need from what I see. Heck I'll probably be culling bucks over 160 just to keep my numbers down , now thats getting nothing for them. In fact it will cost me to shoot and have them tested . Things have really changed up here. Just my opinion ..Ross | ||
| Dan Hall Guest |
It is amazing how things differ in different parts of the country. I may be wrong and probably am, but it seems that this closed border is doing Texas way more harm than good. | ||
| Anonymous |
Jason your 5% loss number may be accurate for bucks that are just roaming around on the property already, but when you add bucks in the fall to a hunt preserve that 5% number climbs. Add a new buck to an area and there will be a fight. Add a dozen new bucks and there will be alot of fights. Some one is going to die. I just wanted to point out that the 5% wasnt a good number for places that add bucks to their place each year. I know from here. | ||
| Farmer Guest |
Dan Hall - you are right - what if every state did the same thing? Major economic ramifications. The US is supposed to have a free market system and encourage interstate commerce. This is about the worst thing any state can do for the economy. | ||
| Brownie Guest |
Thats the point farmer jack a__ politicians are not worried about economy they just vote themselves a raise if times get tough.If they were worried about economy the gas prices wouldnt be 3.00 a gallon. | ||
| Farmer Guest |
More like they don't care about the deer farmer's economy. It wouldn't happen with cattle. | ||
| Scrapeline Guest |
Let's be honest with ourselves. The deer farming business has very little economic impact in our country. Yes, maybe in some isolated cases and areas, but as a whole we can't stand on this case. BUT, we do have certain rights and ought to fight for every last one of them. e.g. Aren't we all farmers, businessmen, firefighters, ect. Aren't we members of SOME community somewhere? Don't we belong to civic groups? I know..It's all been said before. At least it's encourageing to know 99.95 % of anyone who does fight for our rights use this site to broadcast their message. I never take it for granted what some of you folks are doing. Too many names to mention. Thank You All. | ||
| Farmer Guest |
I disagree with the 99.95% using this site - many do not or refuse to post here. Also, consider the Amish community - many testified in Indiana and have even gone to DC on occasion. This site is not even looked at by them. | ||
| a1 Guest |
I have been fighting this since the begining in WI. I had a hard time believing it when I continually ended up with WOW appearing to be the small farmers aversary. As I drilled down I found out why. I still continued to spend alot of time and money trying to organize the industry to fight. I continued to point out that although deals had been made the appeared to kill the little guys and protect the big guys, it would only be a question of time before they tried to shut down the entire industry. Even non deer farmers who I argued our case with are seeing that the joke on us that was called "the highly contagious, always fatal disease that was putting our wild herd in jeopardy and was brought to us by deer farmers" is in fact a grand political manipulation by our dnr. Now, state by state (led by WI) they are squeezing us out of existence. Now the big guys have changed their tune and are calling for solidarity. This is poorly demonstrated on this site by the "got to know somebody" forumn. We are still fragmented and ineffective. There is huge issues of mistrust based upon past practices of our "leadership". We are behind a monumental 8 ball called public opinion that the dnr in WI wielded so effectively in WI with the help of the media. They were never stood up to in court, so now every state knows they can use it. Laws have been broken, tons of farmers driven out of business, untold numbers of animals killed by needless testing, and on and on. If we are to have a snowballs chance in hell, we will need EVERY farmer, past and present to join forces in a legal attack. Oh, by the way some of our own will need to come clean. | ||
| Anon Guest |
Whoever you are you apparently weren't at many of the meetings held in Madison and for WOW. Who were you trying to organize? Seems like most were already organized at WOW or just didn't really care. If they were dissatisfied they should have started their own group and WOW would have gone by the wayside. You can only have a group if someone supports it. Every deer farmer knows what a joke the whole DNR scam was and is. Some farmers are in court now with the CWD positives, but it is extremely difficult to fight the state who has bottomless pockets - ask Stan Hall. WOW has supported him in his fight from the beginning. | ||
| Scrapeline Guest |
Let's try it this way. ------% of the stong advacates of cervid farming use this site to further their broadcast efforts in their fight against regulatory and propaganda efforts from anti-hunter groups and numberous state agencies. Make yourself confortable and fill in the blank as to the percentage you would most agree with. My take is when you are greatly outnumbered the enemy will sweep both flanks and then charge the middle. Flanking us with C.W.D. and health related issues on one side and the other "unit" hit's the other side with ethical and moral issues. Coming thru' the middle is/will be regulatory units. This 'enemy' may not share the same camp, but have a common foe and use each other to attack. Perhaps just rhetoric. Maybe just an observation. Possibly only speculation. Chances are it's -------------. | ||
| Scrapeline Guest |
I know-I know. C-O-M-F-O-R-T-A-B-L-E. I hate proof reading! Scrape |
